As Irans brutal crackdown on mass protests deepens and the news of thousands of protesters killed reaches the world, the global community waits to see how the United States will respond. US President Donald Trump has issued multiple ultimatums via social media to the leaders of the Islamic republic to respect the lives and demands of the protesters, and on January 13 he wrote that Help is on the way.

Richard Goldberg

Hannah Kaviani of RFE/RLs Radio Farda spoke with Richard Goldberg, a senior adviser at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, on January 13 about what Trumps next move might be.

RFE/RLs Radio Farda: US President Trump is talking about help being on the way. And now there is the question of what is this help and what might it entail?

Richard Goldberg:The president is very serious in enforcing his red lines. He was very clear that this sort of mass murder that we are seeing in the streets would not be tolerated, that he would take a strong action against the regime in response. Hes clearly seeing what were all seeing, and that is the regime is truly on the brink. This is a potential historic moment.

This is not 2009. This is not 2019, and, and this is not 2022. This is something that the regime is clearly in full fear of. They see this is not stopping. People are still coming to the streets despite the massive killings by the regime. This is organic. The people have had enough. It's widespread throughout the country.

Combine [that with] the economic situation, the lack of any continued external threats to the world over a nuclear program, and, as we would say in English: The writing is on the wall for the ayatollah [Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei] at this point.

The president needs to be very careful in how he employs his options. He wants to empower and enable the people on the ground, he wants to do maximum disablement to the regime's apparatus to empower the people and enable them, and he wants to ensure he avoids harming any civilians in the process.

RFE/RL: So how are those options?

Goldberg:I would say [Trumps] already started. Youre watching a decision that's already been made unfolding. It started in the economic and diplomatic realm yesterday with the tariff announcement. It is poised to move in new directions imminently with his public statement of urging people to take to the streets, take over institutions, and that help is on the way.

I don't believe, knowing the president, that he would make those statements and put people in harm's way without a bold plan that is coming. And I would imagine that it will be a mix of cyber and military actions. There could be covert activities that we don't understand or know about. And again, the idea will be to disrupt and degrade the regime.

RFE/RL: Could these covert actions include, for example, targeting the supreme leader?

Goldberg:Nothing is off the table.

RFE/RL: What we know from Trump is that he's not in favor of long wars. What do you think is the option here for him?

Goldberg:We have a lot of options. Our air power is superior. There is no air defense in Iran still today that can do anything to the US Air Force or naval air forces: We have ground-to ground-capabilities, strike capabilities; we have long range bombers, as I think the ayatollah witnessed last June, that are stealth. And he wouldn't know things are gone until they're blown up. He wouldn't know anybody's on the way until the bomb goes off.

RFE/RL: Some analysts are warning against such a move because they say that if it's not going to fully take out Irans capability for retaliation, then US assets in region would be a target for retaliation.

Goldberg:If the supreme leader has survived the first round, he won't survive the retaliation after that, if that's the case. He may have already made a decision to go down with the ship and thats why he is obliterating President Trump's red line. But the president, I think, recognizes that and sees the moment and the opportunity and is pushing forward.

[Trump] will, I am sure, be as careful and cautious to avoid hurting any civilians, inflict maximum damage on the regime, fully support the people in trying to take over key areas of the regime, critical command and control areas, information control, government buildings, and the like. There's a range of options that he has in front of him of how to do that most effectively.

In the end, this is something that the people have always known that they will have to do on their own, with us backing, with others. But in the end, this is something that Iranians are taking to the streets [for], to take back their country.

RFE/RL: What would be the White Houses preferred scenario for the day after [any action against Iran]?

Goldberg:[Trump] has always said that's something for the Iranian people to decide and to take for themselves. Obviously, the Iranian people want a future of a government that represents their interests, that make sure that their economy is booming, that the sanctions from the world are not there, that they're not sponsoring terrorism, sending their money to foreign wars, that are not abusing the people on a daily basis, killing and executing people around the country, that they can actually get back to a real life, that women can have their choices of how to dress and be free.

That is the Iran that I think the president wants to see.

He is trying to empower the Iranian people, who are doing something that's never happened before since 1979. They're in the streets, they're dying, and they're staying in the streets.

RFE/RL: Because we have the experience of Venezuela just a few weeks ago, some are asking, What if a similiar scenario takes place? Where those who were close to Maduro, who were basically Maduro people, are still in power in Caracas.

Goldberg:Seems hard to imagine that the most hard-line, truest believers in the Islamic republic would cut any sort of deals with the United States. The Islamic republic of Iran is not in any way the same as the regime in Venezuela. From an ideology, from a religious perspective, they're not the same. Their commonality is that they hate America, they work together, and they fund drugs and terrorism. But the regimes are very, very different and a different history and culture and religion, etc.

It would be hard to imagine core members of Khameneis inner circle deciding to turn over the Islamic republic to the United States and American business and transition to a free and fair election.

But we also don't know what would happen if you simply decapitated the supreme leader and the people were able to take control of government institutions and people inside were ready to defect and turn on the existing regime. You could have a real transition.

RFE/RL: You mentioned people taking over institutions, and thats also been mentioned by Trump. How exactly are people going to do that if they are unarmed [and dying in the streets]? How are ordinary Iranians going to achieve such a thing?

Goldberg:My understanding is in some of the smaller cities, that has taken place to some extent. It is in the large cities where the maximum violence from the regime has been pushed onto the streets out of fear that what they're seeing in the smaller towns will be replicated in the larger cities, including Tehran.

That's where I think you're getting the thousands of body counts adding up with just straight-up machine gun fire in the streets. But if the United States comes in in ways that empower and enable the people to take over facilities and take over institutions, that would be a big way of the president of the United States helping those on the ground.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.